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 Post subject: The Lightsaber and gaming
PostPosted: 08 Jun 2010, 22:04 
Knight
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I don't know how the rest of you feel about this, but I fell like the lightsaber has been alarmingly misrepresented in most games in which it appears. It is a highly devastating and effective tool/weapon capable of cutting through almost anything, which is exactly my point. Almost every game where you are put in the shoes of a Jedi or Sith, the lightsaber is used like a glorified billy club... Where your character simply whacks away until his opponent falls to their knees and drops as if knocked unconscious. Slashing is an incorrect term as it would imply that you are cutting through something.

The only game I have personally played where this issue was addressed is "jedi academy", and I cant even remember if it was a modded version or not.. But if you came across someone with a blaster, and didn't have a very strong deflecting ability you were in big trouble, until you got close. Then the attacker would literally lose his head, or a limb. Even when dueling a lightsaber wielding foe, you would attack and he would block, but his life meter would still drop slighly. You had to wear him down until he was unable to block anymore, and then as I said .. heads would literally roll.

Even the newer games like the KOTOR series and as new as the Force Unleashed still have you whacking away like you're at bat. And i refuse to believe that every enemy you come accross is fitted with a full set of armor made from cortosis, besgar or even forged with sith alchemy.

Don't get me wrong.. I do realize that having realistic animations displaying a *ahem "realistic" encounter with a blade of plasma has severe drawbacks to a developing company trying to maintain a PG rating in movies, and who knows what rating BioWare is shooting for with SWTOR.. I just find it extremely inconsistent that QuiGonJin can sever through a steel entryway, and Obi Wan & Anakin can dismember the hell out of everydroid they encounter, but in the games a human being wearing a robe remains completely intact and drops like you just sang him a lulliby.

Just some food for thought,
Bobby (Laryyk)

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 Post subject: Re: The Lightsaber and gaming
PostPosted: 10 Jun 2010, 08:19 
Master
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I know what you mean and agree with what you are saying. The thing about game design and lightsabers is making a balance in fun and realism. The lightsaber is almost like the ultimate weapon you would get as a "unlock-able" in any other game. It is just really hard to design a game around a weapon that is so devastating because it would almost be too easy. I do think in TOR they somewhat recognize this and that is the reason we see a bunch of weak enemies at once rather than one average enemy. I thought it was a little silly in KOTOR how a viro blade could block a light saber attack too. Unfortunately (or maybe fortunately) it makes the game play way differently.

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 Post subject: Re: The Lightsaber and gaming
PostPosted: 10 Jun 2010, 14:49 
Knight
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Joined: 05 May 2010, 15:33
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Laryyk,
It's an annoyance your going to have to deal with unfortunately. If Lightsabers were as badass in TOR as they are in the movies there wouldn't be much point to playing a Trooper, Smuggler, Bounty Hunter, or Agent, would there? Suspension of Disbelief is the phrase of the day.

Zach,
Vibroblades can block lightsabers if they are high quality and are smithed with a Cortosis Weave.

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 Post subject: Re: The Lightsaber and gaming
PostPosted: 10 Jun 2010, 20:53 
Knight
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I agree that it doesn't really work in an mmo.. Especially for PVP encounters. It would be a pain in the ass, but if you wanted to pull it off, it doesn't have to include 1 strike kills.. Really all it would take is some inventive animation, where the opponent blocks, bobs and weaves and your hits appear to be grazing strikes.. The only hit that would need to be visually penetrating would be the killing strike. I can't help but think: what is a jedi or sith that doesn't dismember his enemies somehow? Heheh

Please make no mistake: this is not at all a deal breaker in my mind and it won't stop me from playing the hell out of this game. I'm simply expressing an old pet-peeve.

Bobby (Laryyk)

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 Post subject: Re: The Lightsaber and gaming
PostPosted: 11 Jun 2010, 10:33 
Padawan
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I definitely know where you're coming from. It is something that confused the hell out of me in KOtoR, but it's also something that I quickly came to grips with and put aside in my mind. While the "better animations" would seemingly fix the problem (at least in Lightsaber vs Lightsaber battles - still don't know what you'd do for a Lightsaber vs blaster armed opponent) I feel as though it would just be too much visually happening on the screen, considering how generally not visually appealing MMO battles are.

I don't know enough about PC games to know exactly what it would do to the system requirements to have a visually ideal battle system, but I imagine it would raise the system requirements to something higher than Bioware intends to sell their game at.

The other issue I see with this is the fact that once you kill someone they're not dead permanently. I'm not sure if it has yet been released as to how exactly Bioware is tackling the whole "Resurrection" thing, but I feel that if you just got completely dismembered it's going to be a very uncomfortable and lengthy return. :lol:

It is definitely something that has to be taken into consideration in every Star Wars game though and something that I am sure is on a lot of fans' minds.

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 Post subject: Re: The Lightsaber and gaming
PostPosted: 12 Jun 2010, 19:32 
Master
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From a purely canon standpoint, the lightsaber is truly the Superman of the Star Wars Universe. It's a bird! It's a plane! It's an energy sword that cuts through everything! While the ability to slice through endless droves of cannon fodder and cut through the most protective of blast-doors makes for epic, exciting film sequences, it doesn't allow for an expanded universe where lightsaber-wielding heroes (and villains) can venture outward and encounter those who are not force-sensitive. We need a kryptonite. We need a mysterious (and plot-hole-ridden) mineral that can stand up to the strike of a lightsaber, even if the lore cannot agree on exactly how it works. We need Cortosis!

Cortosis appears in three primary places in the Star Wars lore: Timothy Zahn's Vision of the Future, Drew Karpyshyn's Darth Bane series, and our beloved KOTOR. Both Bioware and Karpyshyn have treated Cortosis as a "lightsaber-resistant" material that has been incorporated into everything from ship hulls to body armor (in the form of Cortosis-Weave). Zahn's approach is slightly different. In Vision of the Future, Mara Jade Skywalker explains that Cortosis directly affects the way a lightsaber works. There is actually a detailed description of the electronics of the lightsaber, but it basically causes the system to crash and prevents the saber from starting again for a period of time. No matter which version of Cortosis you prefer, one thing is clear: The mineral is used purely as a means to allow for expanded storylines.

The Star Wars universe would be (to me, at least) much less exciting if the Sith could completely wipe out literally anything that stood in its path. There would be no opportunities for the Jedi to need the Republic's armies as much as the armies need them. Sure, the grand scope of the Jedi vs. Sith (as well as all of their civil wars) are what drive most of the galaxy's storylines, but it's the struggles of the "regular folk" that bring everything together. Cortosis, along with a number of other anti-force elements, allow for those stories to happen.

That's the lore explanation. As convenient and "kryptonite-like" as Cortosis is, in my opinion it's something that is completely necessary for LucasArts to continue telling stories. It's also something that Bioware is going to have to rely on for an MMO to work. As much as we may hate hacking and slashing with lightsabers and having no visual effect, there just has to be a line in a video game that allows for multiple classes, some non-force, to coexist and actually stand a chance against each other. Is that frustrating? Possibly. But the world that LA and Bioware are crafting, the depth of story, and everything else that they have yet to reveal are going to far outweigh the inconveniences caused by the most powerful melee weapon in the universe.

Wookiepedia has a great article on Cortosis that also has links to other force-resistive materials like phrik and Mandalorian Iron. Check it out here... http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Cortosis


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 Post subject: Re: The Lightsaber and gaming
PostPosted: 12 Jun 2010, 20:27 
Knight
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I was going to mention mandalorian iron. Also known as "besgar". Boba Fett sent a set of besgar armor to Han Solo as a gift in condolences for his son Jacen's fall to the dark side and death at the hands of Jaina Solo, his twin sister. Han dismisses the gift and Jagged Fel, Jaina's love interest takes it. The armor saves him from lightsaber dismemberment a few times in the series (if I remember correcly, this takes place early in the 'fate of the jedi' novels. A fantastic series that is still being written)

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